Higher Octane=More Horsepower
9/5/10, 05:50 PM
#1
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Higher Octane=More Horsepower
I am 'now convinced' that higher octane fuel will increase power on the 3.7L V-6. While reading the owners manual for my Dad's 2010 Taurus i found this on his 3.5L V-6. "Your vehicle will run normally on 87 octane regular fuel. Premium fuel will provide improved performance". No more wondering anymore.
9/6/10, 02:59 PM
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More proof:
In the June 2010 Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords 3.7L article it is stated that it WILL adapt to better fuel ...
The powertrain ECU has been upgraded with a very aggressive deceleration cylinder shutoff for fuel economy, coupled with very rapid tip-in for street performance. On the flip side, the ECU has been reprogrammed with adaptive-knock spark control. If the two knock sensors embedded in the cylinder block don't hear knocking, the ECU will keep advancing the spark until it does.What this means in performance terms is that, if the owner uses premium or race gas on weekends, the engine should make considerably more power and torque than the numbers quoted here, which are the product of standard SAE dynamometer laboratory testing procedures and not real-world driving.
The editors of MM&FF sat down with 3 Ford Engineers and wrote this article, here is a link to the complete article ...
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ine/index.html
To all of you on this forum who say the 3.7L Mustang factory tune is not set up to adapt to better than 87 octane fuel ... show us an article or interview with a Ford official that states otherwise.
Doug
In the June 2010 Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords 3.7L article it is stated that it WILL adapt to better fuel ...
The powertrain ECU has been upgraded with a very aggressive deceleration cylinder shutoff for fuel economy, coupled with very rapid tip-in for street performance. On the flip side, the ECU has been reprogrammed with adaptive-knock spark control. If the two knock sensors embedded in the cylinder block don't hear knocking, the ECU will keep advancing the spark until it does.What this means in performance terms is that, if the owner uses premium or race gas on weekends, the engine should make considerably more power and torque than the numbers quoted here, which are the product of standard SAE dynamometer laboratory testing procedures and not real-world driving.
The editors of MM&FF sat down with 3 Ford Engineers and wrote this article, here is a link to the complete article ...
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ine/index.html
To all of you on this forum who say the 3.7L Mustang factory tune is not set up to adapt to better than 87 octane fuel ... show us an article or interview with a Ford official that states otherwise.
Doug
9/7/10, 07:58 AM
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Yes, but it's curious that Ford doesn't make the same statement about the V6 Mustang. The Mustang GT and the Taurus V6 say that so why doesn't the V6 Mustang? I think that's why so many are saying it doesn't apply to the Mustang.
9/7/10, 08:22 AM
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Thats why i started this Thread. Its common knowledge the G.T. get something like 12 extra horsepower when going from 87 to 93 octane gas. They are no horsepower numbers for the V-6 and it isn't talked about very much, but we do have adaptive tune calibration. For some reason it isn't talked about very much by Ford, only 'a little here and there'.
9/7/10, 09:01 AM
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I don't think you will increase horsepower. In the old days we would turn the distribitor to advance the spark on race days, being carefull not to cause knock (too much). The ECU does that now, how nice! Also race fuel used to improve performance. But I don't think it increases horsepower, just seems that way. However, it sure will run better.
Last edited by Wander; 9/7/10 at 09:03 AM.
9/7/10, 09:02 AM
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The only definitive answer would come from a dyno. Anyone have access to one that would be willing to do a few runs with different octane fuels? Purely for science of course. 
Even that magazine interview isn't definitive since it was written before the engine went into production. I'm surprised that more recent articles in C&D, R&T, or other magazines wouldn't have mentioned it although they may just use premium as a standard procedure.
Even that magazine interview isn't definitive since it was written before the engine went into production. I'm surprised that more recent articles in C&D, R&T, or other magazines wouldn't have mentioned it although they may just use premium as a standard procedure.
9/7/10, 10:42 AM
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I don't think you will increase horsepower. In the old days we would turn the distribitor to advance the spark on race days, being carefull not to cause knock (too much). The ECU does that now, how nice! Also race fuel used to improve performance. But I don't think it increases horsepower, just seems that way. However, it sure will run better.
9/7/10, 11:46 AM
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Remember when Motor Trend used the K&N dyno for the 2011 G.T. and V-6? They said Ford under rated both of these engines on their horsepower numbers. I wonder if the V-6 had premium gas? Maybe....Maybe not. Just a thought.
9/7/10, 10:15 PM
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Of course it does. Timing advance has a significant affect on horsepower. This is not the old days. Everything is computer controlled and timing is advanced up to the point of detonation then backed down slightly. This takes maximum advantage of the octane available. 87 on a 5.0 is 10-12 hp less than 93 without an optimized tune. Throw that into the equation and you can get MUCH more horsepower. How do you think the tuners are getting the HP they are? Mostly timing and fuel manipulation. It's not rocket science..
Unless the engine is specifically adaptive to run on mid to premium- it's just a better burn. I read the quoted statement as Ford designed the engine to run on regular and by doing so has put in a knock sensor to recognize bad gas, i.e gas under 87 rating. Which exists more often than not.
The fact that Ford doesn't come out and say it directly leaves me to believe the knocking sensor is limited up to 87 and is used for recognizes bad gas. Having 1 enthusiast magazine out of the 10-15 legit car mags/sites is hardly proof enough for my taste. Plus, it's what they believed Ford meant... not what Ford execs said... If timing is limited up to a point then everything above it is excess.
Back with the Bullit Ford spoke directly about the adaptive fuel control to run Premium. Same thing with the 2010 GT. And subsequently with the 5.0. But yet, not the v6...
The fact that we're asking about it and it hasn't came directly from a engineer's mouth leaves me to question the idea.
As the same technology is used in the 3.0L V6 (one of the 3.7L's parent engines.)
Among the features that help improve the efficiency of the 3.0L V6 are adaptive knock control and aggressive deceleration fuel cutoff. The former allows the engineers to calibrate the fuel delivery and spark timing to minimize the fuel consumption without triggering damaging engine detonation. The fuel cutoff disables fuel delivery when the driver lifts off the accelerator. However, the engine management doesn't just abruptly disable the injectors. That would cause bumps and hesitation that the occupants of the car would be able to feel. Instead, the control strategy uses engine torque as the control variable. A desired engine torque is calculated based on a combination of driver demand, speed, gear ratio and other variables. When the accelerator is released, the torque is ramped down to zero. The fuel delivery, spark timing and electronic throttle position are determined from the torque demand. This causes the the injector pulses to be ramped down so that the overall power delivery is kept smooth and seamless without abrupt changes
Last edited by 2010MustangGT; 9/7/10 at 10:17 PM. Reason: quote
9/7/10, 10:27 PM
#13
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#1) It's not adaptive fuel control, it's adaptive spark control.
Adaptive spark advances the timing up until the knock sensor detects spark knock and then retards the timing slightly to a point where the knock goes away.
So, the better fuel you run in a car with this type of timing control will make more power up to the point of maximium spark advance available.
#2) Premium fuel in a motor that doesn't need it will make less power because the fuel DOESN'T burn as efficiently. Higher ocatane fuel burns slower, has a higher flash point than lower octane fuel. This will make the car get worse fuel economy because the fuel doesn't burn completely during the combustion process.
Anyway, adaptive spark control is part of what makes the new Ford motors work as well as they do, get the higher fuel economy and more power so the V6 should make more power with higher octane fuel since it does include the adaptive spark control.
Oh, and jet fuel is just about kerosene, not something to put in your car unless you want it to self destruct.
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Adaptive spark advances the timing up until the knock sensor detects spark knock and then retards the timing slightly to a point where the knock goes away.
So, the better fuel you run in a car with this type of timing control will make more power up to the point of maximium spark advance available.
#2) Premium fuel in a motor that doesn't need it will make less power because the fuel DOESN'T burn as efficiently. Higher ocatane fuel burns slower, has a higher flash point than lower octane fuel. This will make the car get worse fuel economy because the fuel doesn't burn completely during the combustion process.
Anyway, adaptive spark control is part of what makes the new Ford motors work as well as they do, get the higher fuel economy and more power so the V6 should make more power with higher octane fuel since it does include the adaptive spark control.
Oh, and jet fuel is just about kerosene, not something to put in your car unless you want it to self destruct.
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Last edited by Ltngdrvr; 9/7/10 at 10:30 PM.
9/8/10, 06:49 AM
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Ltngdrvr is correct - using premium fuel in an engine not designed for it is just a waste of money. "Premium" does not mean better just higher octane for more knock resistance. The amount of energy available from a gallon of gas is the same regardless of octane rating.
Modern automobile engines have had knock sensors for many years. It's not a new thing that Ford added to "recognize bad gas". My 95 Z28 had knock sensors.
The only thing new about adaptive spark advance is that it advances timing until it determines the upper limit thus producing the most performance possible. Other (older) systems had the timing preset at the upper limit and then retarded it to compensate for knocking if it occurred.
The question is... is the V6 set up to use the adaptive spark advance to advance timing beyond what's necessary for regular fuel? It would seem logical that it is but why doesn't Ford say so?
Modern automobile engines have had knock sensors for many years. It's not a new thing that Ford added to "recognize bad gas". My 95 Z28 had knock sensors.
The only thing new about adaptive spark advance is that it advances timing until it determines the upper limit thus producing the most performance possible. Other (older) systems had the timing preset at the upper limit and then retarded it to compensate for knocking if it occurred.
The question is... is the V6 set up to use the adaptive spark advance to advance timing beyond what's necessary for regular fuel? It would seem logical that it is but why doesn't Ford say so?
9/8/10, 07:45 AM
#15
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I just read this in the 2009 MKS Lincoln owners manual. It has the 3.7L engine. It says, 87 Octane (normal Operation), 91 Octane (Maximum Performance).
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